thinking about going digital

[Mark Schurdevin]

I like the idea of not dragging a Twin Reverb around anymore, my back can't take it, what's everybody using? Plugging a rig into a board is starting to sound appealing.

[Earl Foote]

I'm using the Tonemaster Twin. I used to love tube twins until they exceeded the rated capacity of my back

[Fred Treece]

Prepare for the learning curve. Don’t let go of your Twin. Use it for A-B comparison when tweaking around with your digital modeling gear, whatever it may be. You might not ever get that exact tone or feel, but finding a sound that is useful and inspiring to play is within reach. There are lots of great reviews from fellow Forumites of Joe Roger’s’ ToneX amp profiles for pedal steel.

[Jon Jaffe]

Mark, I've been completely digital for about two and a half years. In my opinion, the sound has to be reproduced by an amplifier that's EQ'd for digital preamps. I haven't been satisfied with the sound going into the return of a conventional amplifier. That said, the two amps that I use regularly are the Fender FR-12 and the ToneX amplifier. The ToneX amplifier is slightly lighter and louder than the FR-12. The ToneX amplifier can also load its own IRs, which are digital speaker samples. But the FR-12 has a glorious high-end reproduction that I am missing with the ToneX. The other downside to the FR-12 is that the direct out isn't post EQ.

The digital preamps I recommend are three: The Quilter Super Block US, the ToneX One, and the Valeton GP-5. The Valeton is approximately $80 direct from the company, making it the most affordable option. I haven't used it live yet, but the setup, reverb, and delay are easy to use. The ToneX One has Joe Rogers presets available, and they are pretty good, but there's a steep learning curve to the ToneX. The Quilter Super Block US is a great starting point because the setup and controls are self-evident. In addition to its preamp function, the package includes a 25W practice amp.

[Tim Toberer]

The digital preamps I recommend are three: The Quilter Super Block US, the ToneX One, and the Valeton GP-5. The Valeton is approximately $80 direct from the company, making it the most affordable option. I haven't used it live yet, but the setup, reverb, and delay are easy to use. The ToneX One has Joe Rogers presets available, and they are pretty good, but there's a steep learning curve to the ToneX. The Quilter Super Block US is a great starting point because the setup and controls are self-evident. In addition to its preamp function, the package includes a 25W practice amp.

I have had the Valeton for a few weeks and I have to say it is really easy to use. Almost no learning curve. I am terrible with technology and I was able to start using it immediately. This is really all you need, it is even a tuner. I have made a bunch of patches with the stock setup and really happy with the sound. It is fun to tinker around with all the options, but In my opinion best to find a good clean, follow it with a slightly grittier sound , and get back to practicing. You can easily waste an afternoon going through all the different variables!
This thing is incredibly versatile. I am also putting together a small pedalboard around a Joyo American Sound and I have a small slot right after it I plan on using it for cab sims, IR's or individual effects. Heck I might even buy another one! I had the Quilter SuperBlock and it is good too, but I much prefer the Valeton, which is way more useful and less than 1/3 the price. I think I would prefer the Joyo over the Quilter If I wanted to stick with solid state.

[Dave Grafe]

Never mind digital, if you like your TR and want to feed a line to the PA check out Quilter's SuperBlock US. Fits in a pac-seat compartment, 25 watts speaker output if you use the included 24vdc PSU and if you don't need to drive a speaker the XLR line out with speaker cab emulation can run off your 9vdc pedal board PSU. I chose the "65" tone stack, dialed up my TR settings and never went back to the gut buster.

[James P Mitchell]

The least "new stuff to learn" version of this would be getting the Tonemaster Twin or a Milkman Half and Half. They're like 30 pounds, probably lighter than your guitar.
After that you're looking at getting a modeler or something. That's more of a learning curve.

[D Schubert]

Just do it. You won't miss the weight, and -- while you may hear the difference -- most of the folks around you won't. Even your bandmates. Sometimes you gotta remind yourself that what you're dishing out ain't perfect, but it's good enough for what it's for.

[Dave Campbell]

i've been on the digital journey for a while, coming from a fender amp that i nearly killed myself with trying to get it on an ackward stage. here is where i went on my journey, which is my own and driven by taste, nerdiness and neuroticism.

first, i got a milkman half and half. i played it for a long time, but i didn't ever really like it.

when the tonemaster came out i jumped on it and loved it. then i chased some sounds with it and tried some different speakers bla blah blah. i can never get it to have a smooth high end with snappy bass; but i find this true with twins in general.

then i came across a session 400...and a 2nd one. for a while i used two in stereo which is insane but i did it.

now i'm working on a tonex rig with joe rogers captures. right now i'm putting it through a powered peavey cab with a black widow, but i think i need to acquire a lighter power amp (jay ganz straight ahead?) and might as well get a neo speaker (telonics?) and do this thing right. there is a lot to learn with the tonex, and there are an enormous number of very good captures that you can tweak and waste all your practice time on.

if i saw a twin on marketplace right now i'd probably buy it, even if it was the one i sold three years ago.

isn't this game fun?

[Nathan Guilford]

I'll put in my 2 cents. I run either a digital rig or an amp. To me it depends on the situation and how much I trust a sound man to give me enough volume so I can still play in tune.

For digital - I like my boss ir-2. Its literally a pedal. It sounds really good on clean, especially after I replaced the stock impulse response (speaker emulation) with a JBL 15" impulse response. It was a little fiddly, but I only needed to do it once (there's videos on Youtube). AND it has 3 outs: one for the front of house, one for a dedicated monitor (if you need it), and the third is a headphone jack! I just pop in an earbud if I'm having trouble hearing. The downside is the "ambience control". Boo. Still have to have a reverb pedal.

BUT...Let me say something that's gonna sound crazy. Sell your twin. Buy an old silverface champ or vibrochamp from the 70s. Replace the speaker with a Warehouse G8C speaker ($59). Plug into the 2nd input. Put it between 3 and 4 on the volume. Turn the bass all the way up and back off the treble to 3ish. It stays pretty clean. Put a mic in front of it. NOBODY will complain about stage volume from a champ. But you need a good monitor in front of you. It has the fender sound. All the sparkle. I have even done this with a full loud band.

[Stew Crookes]

I like the idea of not dragging a Twin Reverb around anymore, my back can't take it, what's everybody using? Plugging a rig into a board is starting to sound appealing.

I love my Quilter SuperBlock - sounds fantastic straight into the PA (or recording direct) and having the built in power amp is very convenient for additional stage monitoring or for rehearsals. Weighs basically nothing!

[Jon Jaffe]

The FRFR powered speaker is integral to achieving the sound clarity that a digital preamp provides. I have tried both the Tonex, the SuperBlock US, as well as others through the following setups: Quilter TT with a 202, The Milkman H&H, and a Huff 15 powered by a Straight Ahead amp. While they are OK, they aren't as good as either the Tonex or the Fender FRFR powered speaker.

[Mark Hepler]

Either of these kill it for me, direct to PA. Use the Boss lately--but never an amp.

[Mark Hepler]

They sound great going into an A/D converter like Scarlett Solo too. I bought the Boss in Korea in March new, had sat in a store for 10 years. They're both a little cheesy, which gives them real analog amp quirkiness.

[George Seymour]

Ok.. chime in. Molded in ears...64 Audio, four driver. Huge difference...$1500..tried the cheaper stuff.. disappointed.
Tried the Tone Block stuff as the band leader was pushing hard for amp less stage...then became intrigued with the Tone X capture stuff.. Joe Rogers also did stuff with Quad Cortex...well..as it turns out I have one of the best ever steel amps in my opinion with a 60's Standel 82L15..I captured it in less than a half hour with clear instructions from the manufacture. I am very satisfied with the tone in an amp less stage.. I use the Quad Cortex. Very versatile many options for input and output..(up to four inputs)...huge processing horsepower. For what I do I suspect it hardly breaks a sweat..

[Mark Hepler]

Every guitarist I've played has a pricey Strymon Iridium he NEVER uses; drummers leave their E-drums at home. So "silent stage" stays pretty loud.

I have noticed that guys who have Kempers stick with them but don't sound any better for it. They use the amplified model: in which case why not play through a combo amp in the first place?

The endless quest to buy tone marches on . . . .

[Mark Hepler]

Here I am last weekend: in-ears, no amp (just the Boss FDR-1 & Zoom MS-70CDR). The rest of the guys larded it up with all kinds of gear--so much so that I could barely fit in. The bass guy, not shown, brought 2 axes and an amp!

Fork St 3 small.jpg

[Earl Foote]

Love that Zoom pedal Mark. I just discovered there is a graphic EQ available in the 'Filters' in that pedal. I set up an EQ and a nice reverb and run that pedal between my steel and Tonemaster Twin.

[Mark Hepler]

Earl,

I bet that Twin's line-out tears it up. It's the best of all worlds: amp and direct.

The Zoom is deep; I've been discovering/creating new patches for 10 years--and don't own a pedalboard!

A Scarlett Solo or such is good to have but you can also plug right into the "mic" input on a decent desktop. Run a cable from your amp line-out or, in my case, a Joyo American Sound.

Stuff doesn't have to cost a fortune . . . or does it? Maybe it's just me.

[Tim Toberer]

Going back to the original post, just want to point out you don't have to go digital to go ampless. Trying the Joyo first is a very low risk way to see how you like it. The price for this device has been the same since it came out, around $40. I think a meal at Burger King costs more these days. For me I have and like it all, real tube and SS amps, analog and digital amp sims/effects. They all have their place and you don't need the most expensive gear. Here is a great thread from 2012 that describes how to dial in a clean sound on the Joyo-Blonde pedal. It is funny how much new gear has come around since this thread, but this cheap pedal still compares very favorably to all the other options.
viewtopic.php?t=238385&start=25

[Fred Treece]

Going “ampless” on stage means going IEM, or having digital control of a floor monitor mix. So the $40 preamp box is really just the first step in the process.

If I was going to use something like a ToneX or Boss IR unit, I’d probabaly still run one of the outs into a decent powered speaker. But that defeats the central issue in the OP, which is to show up at the gig with a guitar, volume pedal, a 5-ounce amp profiler box, and a couple of cables.

[Jim Palenscar]

I have gone w the Tonex pedal with some of Joe Rogers' presets and added Brad Sarno's Black Box Mini to soften the digital tone I was getting and it definitely helped.

[Les Ford]

I have a number of digital options around the house but I can't say enough good about the ToneKing Imperial preamp pedal running into a Seymour Duncan Powerstage. It's still tubes and not digital (except for the power amp) but it weighs 5 lbs with the 200 watt Powerstage and 8 1/2 lbs with the 700 watt Powerstage.

It sounds like a Fender Deluxe Reverb and can be as louder than a Twin. It has reverb and tremelo and also has a gain channel.

I run it into an old 15 inch Altec 418b which works very well.

Sometimes I just run the ToneKing straight into my Bose L1pro32 PA but in that application I use the Bose high pass filter and parametric EQ to notch out a boominess problem that shows up when I run it this way.

The great thing about this setup aside from the weight loss is that you can run the preamp in its sweet spot at any volume on any stage from a quite restaurant to an open field.

[Mark Hepler]

Turned up a vid of my cheap rig live, direct to PA. Not sure whether it's the Joyo "American" or the Boss "Deluxe" amp-sim at work . . . probably the Boss FDR-1.

https://youtu.be/rVTpvR-WgqU?feature=shared

Can you guys honestly say you'd hear any difference between "cheap" and pricey gear at noisy, acoustically-challenged gigs like this?

[Fred Treece]

https://youtu.be/rVTpvR-WgqU?feature=shared

Can you guys honestly say you'd hear any difference between "cheap" and pricey gear at noisy, acoustically-challenged gigs like this?

Maybe not at FOH, but with an amp 4 feet away instead of the modeler feed in my ear, probably yes. The question is, is a well-tweaked modeler in a decent IEM good enough, if not quite the same as the $3k real thing. Also yes.